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 Naslov prispevka: Re: Poecilia sphenops pikčasti moli
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Wer kennt das Volk der Mollienser?
https://www.aqualog.de/blog/wer-kennt-d ... ollienser/



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 Naslov prispevka: Re: Poecilia sphenops pikčasti moli
UNREAD_POSTObjavljeno: 04. jun 2012 21:17 
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Gupi Endler je napisal/-a:
ali se ti podatki spremenijo če je moli rumene barve?...

Tisti opis podan je totalna katastrofa in povsem napačen. Moram samokritično priznati, da sem delno tudi jaz kriv, ker nisem že zdavnaj odstranil iz Akvazina podobno povsem napačen opis črnega molija (neki fant je pred leti tam objavil - podobno kot tu je bivši lastnik akvazina dovolil vsakemu otroku, ki je imel 5 minut časa - da lepi na portal napačne podatke - med drugim je imel gor sliko divjega pikčastega molija oz. ene vrste iz kompleksa "P. sphenops complex", tudi podatki o temperaturi - do 18°C in podobne, so bili prepisani iz Fish base, ki veljajo za divje vrste tega kompleksa itd..). No, sedaj sem tisto grozljivko od "opisa" odstranil, dokler se ne pojavi tam verodostojen opis. >:D
Če je rumene barve, velja isto kot za vse črne molije, ki so v veliki večini samo križanci med več vrst molijev rodu Poecilia, to je samo barvna pasma ali oblika teh križancev. So pa lahko črni moliji melanistična oblika določene vrste molije (ene od kratkoplavutih ali dolgoplavutih vrst) ali pa gre za križanca med eno ali več vrstami, zanimivo je, da so celo ameriški vzreditelji pred desetletji že uporabili tudi naravne hibride posameznih vrst kompleksov "P. sphenops complex", "P. mexicana complex" in "P. latininna complex", pa se znajdi, kdor se more.
To je pomembno zato, ker ima večina teh črnih molijev v sebi tudi gen mavričnega molija in še drugih skoraj morskih vrst; od tega je odvisno,kako pogosto in kako gosto slanost jim moramo nuditi v akvariju, pa tudi glede temperature ipd...
V glavnem pri veliki večini črnih molijev v hobiju je gena od vrste P. sphenops manj kot 10%, torej lahko mirno in upravičeno trdimo, da to ni vrsta P. sphenops. Zgodba je podobna kot pri akvarijskih mečkih in platijih, to so vse sami križanci.
Naravne, divje vrste redko zaidejo v naše akvarije, skoraj nikoli. Niti mi ni povsem jasno, kako priti do njih.
To, kar se goji po akvarijih, je vse izrojeno zaradi inbridinga in ni biološko gledano vredno pet para :P

Če povzamem, opis tu in celo na bolj resnih forumih je/so večinoma napačni; črni moli - black molly = črni pikčati moli, Poecilia sphenops, var. melanistica ali križanci rodu Poecilia: Poecilia X sphenops, var. melanistica.

Meni se zdi zanimivo, kako malo povprečni akvarist pozna dejansko to ribo, ki med drugim, če začnem od začetka, za razliko od splošnega prepričanja ni niti po naključju primerna za začetnika! In tako dalje, bolj kot to študiraš, bolj vidiš, da o molijih vemo zelo malo. Napačnih trditev v zvezi s to "prekrižano vrsto" na spletu je toliko , da je to samo po sebi fenomen! Žal ne brez primere :evil1: :happycry:
Če koga zanima, nekaj malega o tem sem zbral tule: viewtopic.php?f=107&t=4073&p=6012#p6012
Zanimivo je, da je prisotno dejansko največ % genetskega materiala v sodobnih akvarijskih molijih širom sveta od sorodne vrste mehiškega molija, to je Poecilia mexicana (aka shortfin molly)
Še ena zanimivost: ste vedeli, od kje ime moli oz. ime rodu Mollienesia? Rod je dobil ime v čast francoskega ministra za finance iz 19. stoletja: to je slavni Francois Nicolas Mollien.
http://www.napoleon-empire.org/images/t ... ollien.jpg
Zgodba, zakaj so moliji dobili ime po njem je komično - zanimiva, kot večina takih etimoloških zadev v zvezi z imeni rib ;)



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 Naslov prispevka: black molly črni moli
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črni moli - black molly = črni pikčati moli, Poecilia sphenops, var. melanistica ali križanci rodu Poecilia: Poecilia X sphenops, var. melanistica.

Slika
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 Naslov prispevka: Re: Poecilia sphenops pikčasti moli
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> Phylogenetic relationships among the mollies (Poeciliidae: Poecilia: Mollienesia group) based on mitochondrial DNA sequences. Ptacek, Breden 2005
Journal of Fish Biology Volume 53, Issue Supplement sA, pages 64–81, December 1998
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... x/abstract
Keywords: mtDNA; NADH dehydrogenase subunit 2; control region; Poecilia; Mollienesia; mollies; phylogeny

A 505-bp sequence from the control region (D-loop) and the complete 1047 bp of the NADH dehydrogenase subunit 2 (ND2) gene were examined for individuals from 11 species of mollies included in the group Mollienesia. All three species of sailfin mollies of the Poecilia latipinna species complex were included (P. latipinna, P. petenensis and P. velifera); this group is named after the strikingly large dorsal fin in males. Six members of the shortfin P. mexicana complex (P. gilli, P. mexicana, P. orri, P. catemaconis, P. latipunctata and P. sulphuraria) and two members of the shortfin P. sphenops complex (P. butleri and P. sphenops) were examined. To test the monophyly of the Mollienesia group, two species of mollies outside of this group were included: P. caucana and P. vivipara. The guppy P. reticulata was used as the outgroup taxon. Similar topologies were recovered using three phylogenetic methods (maximum parsimony, neighbour joining and maximum likelihood) and revealed several interesting relationships. First, all members of Mollienesia form a monophyletic group, which supports the more traditional taxonomy and classification of these species as comprising the subgenus Mollienesia as proposed previously. Second, the species of mollies outside of the Mollienesia group are only loosely allied with the Mollienesia clade; P. caucana is the sister taxon to Mollienesia, but P. vivipara lies outside of this Mollienesia-P. caucana clade. Third, the three sailfin molly species form a monophyletic group within the Mollienesia clade, but interestingly, shortfin species are paraphyletic due to the inclusion of a single shortfin species, P. latipunctata, within this sailfin clade. The exact placement of P. latipunctata within the sailfin clade is unclear. Fourth, the remaining shortfin species form a monophyletic sister clade to the sailfins and are separated into two groups, one containing P. sphenops and P. catemaconis and a second lineage leading to the remaining shortfin species. This arrangement does not support the morphological separation of shortfins into a P. sphenops and a P. mexicana species complex. Bootstrap analyses support the monophyly of Mollienesia (78–85%), the sailfin clade (100%) and the shortfin clade (79–95%).
_________
Primitive Sex Chromosomes in Poeciliid Fishes Harbor Simple Repetitive DNA Sequences. THE JOURNAL OF EXPERIMENTAL ZOOLOGY 265:301-308 (1993)
http://freedownload.is/pdf/the-journal- ... 51994.html

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 Naslov prispevka: Re: Poecilia sphenops pikčasti moli
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Slika
Poecilia mexicana, a fish with an alien appetite. The Mexican fish thrives in environment that would kill most other life forms. (Credit: Michi Tobler, Texas A&M University)
Extreme cave fish with ‘alien’ appetites
TEXAS A&M (US) — Could life exist on planets less hospitable than our own? Scientists studying a tiny Mexican fish say it’s quite possible. “The fish we study are extremophiles, meaning they are adapted to life at the edge of biological tolerance,” says Katherine Roach, a graduate student at Texas A&M University in the wildlife and fisheries sciences department.
Roach, together with Kirk Winemiller and collaborator Michael Tobler, recently authored a paper on the fish published in the journal Ecology. The small fish they studied is Poecilia mexicana found in the Cueva del Azufre or the “cave of sulfur” located in Tabasco state, Mexico.
Straight from the Source - Read the original study [url=http://www.esajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1890/11-0276.1?prevSearch=[AllField%3A+Poecilia+mexicana]+and+[Contrib%3A+Roach]&searchHistoryKey=]DOI: 10.1890/11-0276.1[/url]
The small (about 2.5 inches at maturity), almost blind fish live in total darkness swimming in oxygen-starved water with hydrogen sulfide concentrations so toxic they would kill most other life forms, according to Roach.
“Our research shows that organic carbon produced by sulfur bacteria oxidizing dissolved hydrogen sulfide, a process called chemoautotrophy, is the main food source for the fish,” Roach says. “Though it is known that simpler life forms flourish by feeding through this process, ours is the first study to actually document a fish, a true vertebrate, directly receiving its sustenance through bacteria performing chemoautotrophy.
“Their ecosystem in the cave is basically self-sustaining without much input from plants at the surface. As a result, our research has implications for discovering life outside the earth. If these complex vertebrates can thrive on sulfur bacteria, why couldn’t similar, more evolutionary derived organisms be supported by chemoautotrophic bacteria on other moons or planets such as Europa, one of Jupiter’s moons? It may not be altogether impossible.”
Roach explains that most of the earth’s ecosystems have food chains supported by organic carbon produced from the fixation of atmospheric carbon dioxide by plants using sunlight. These, in turn, release breathable oxygen into the atmosphere.
Roach says another study in Movile Cave in Romania a few years ago examined a population of macroinvertebrates that have been isolated in the cave for some 5.5 million years, which also feed on chemoautotrophic bacteria. She says that study generated enough public interest to warrant its own Wikipedia page and notes that author E.O. Wilson highlights this case study in his book The Future of Life.
“What makes our study so exciting is that we’re the first to actually document a fish, a relatively large and complex vertebrate, that is able to thrive by being solely supported by chemoautotrophic-processed hydrogen sulfide bacteria,” Roach says.

More news from Texas A&M University: http://tamutimes.tamu.edu

http://www.futurity.org/science-technol ... appetites/



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 Naslov prispevka: Re: Poecilia sphenops pikčasti moli
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Geographical distribution: Central America and Northern South America. From Mexico to as far as North of Colombia.
SlikaI - Morphology Synopsis ( some meristic characters )


Total absolute lenght
Adult male : 49.7 a 60.9 mm
Adult female : 60.5 a 9.8 mm
Dorsal fin rays : / 10 ( 12 )
Caudal fin rays : / 22 ( 24 )
Scales on lateral line : 32 ( 34 )
Head lenght body lenght ratio ( male ) : 0,23
Head lenght body lenght ratio ( female ) : 0,19
http://www.viviparos.com/Fichas/P%20sphenops%20eng.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.biolib.cz/IMG/GAL/BIG/78300.jpg
Poecilia sphenops Valenciennes, 1846 - "Black Moll" (misli prednik črnega molija).
Author: Radek Sejkora

Slika
Poecilia sphenops E-MEX 02-09. Picture shows a young female. Also a very common species in southern Mexico.
Slika
A beautiful livebearer living in the nutrient rich, warm water: Poecilia butleri Jordan, 1889. Thanks to Harro Hieronimus/DGLZ and Michi Tobler for identification.
Read more about this eye-catching species here.
http://www.aquariophil.org/html/mexico_2009_01.html



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 Naslov prispevka: Poecilia sphenops pikčasti moli
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Kratkoplavuti pikčasti moli, Poecilia sphenops (Valenciennes, 1846)
> Mexican molly, Liberty molly; Česky: Živorodka ostrotlamá
>Poeciliidae >Poeciliinae> subgenus Mollienesia
Spada v P. sphenops »complex«: P. sphenops, P. maylandi, P. gilli, P. butleri, P. salvatoris, P. orri, P. vandepolli. P: chica. P gracilis, P. mexicana, P. sulphuraria, P. latipunctata. P. catemaconis .
Imajo trojno ali enojnokoničaste zobe ipd.; zanimivo je, da obstajajo v naravi tudi naravni hibridi med temi vrstami.
> Later on, new scientific evidences ( now also based in DNA as well in behaviour and not only in morphologic characters ), have decide the new tendencies about the complex classification.
Based on the more recent paper works, it is very accepted today an entirely new revision on the Poecilia sphenops complex based on genetic models that allow a better understanding on these species evolution and closeness.
Some much differentiated populations like the Rio Balsas Mexican sphenops population, are not considered as an autonomous species, but instead considered a very divergent one.
There are several versions about this species complex composition but they are not very far from this :
Poecilia butleri
Poecilia chica
Poecilia gracilis
Poecilia gilli
Poecilia mexicana
Poecilia orri
Poecilia sphenops
Poecilia vandepolii


Some sources also classify Poecilia mexicana as an independent complex too.
This way we can look upon two different “ branches “ according to the next geographical division :
1) Pacífic side ( Poecilia sphenops complex )
Poecilia butleri
Poecilia chica
Poecilia mayalandi
Poecilia sphenops


2) Atlantic side ( Poecilia mexicana complex )
Poecilia catemaconis
Poecilia formosa
Poecilia gilli
Poecilia latipuncatata
Poecilia mexicana limantouri
Poecilia orri
Poecilia suphuraria
Poecilia teresae

...
> Based on morphological and allozymic evidence, the Poecilia sphenops complex is an array of at least ten biological species ranging from Mexico to Venezuela (systematics are unclear south of Mexico) and not a single polytypic species as some authors have previously suggested. The allozyme data also suggest that the populations of mollies with tricuspid teeth on the Atlantic and Pacific coasts of Mexico now referred to as P. sphenops (sensu strito) may represent at least two biological species. As some of the members of the complex are used as general research animals, experimental biologists should ascertain the specific identity of their stocks.
> Reference: Brett, Betty Lou Hilton, Turner, Bruce J. (1983/05/26)."Genetic divergence in the Poecilia sphenops complex in Middle America." Biochemical Systematics and Ecology 11(2): 127-137. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 788390011X
PDF
Slika
http://www.fishbase.us/images/thumbnail ... sph_m0.jpg
The morphologically most similar mollies (P. mexicana, P. sphenops and P. butleri) are genetically quite distinct...

Invazivna vrsta v ZDA: Remarks: Some, conceivably all, of the records of this species in the United States may turn out to represent one of the other members of the P. sphenops species complex and not P. sphenops. For instance, the Hawaiian records of P. sphenops (Maciolek 1984) and that of P. mexicana (Devick 1991) are now considered the same fish (Poecilia sp.; Mundy 2005). Similarly, Schoenherr (1979) reported taking P. sphenops from a canal northwest of the Salton Sea in California; however, according to Dill and Cordone (1997), later authors questioned the identification and therefore did not include P. sphenops in their listings of California fishes (e.g., Hubbs et al. 1979; Shapovalov et al. 1981). At least five members of the P. sphenops species complex have been reported from the United States (Courtenay and Hensley 1979).

> Značilnost vrste P. sphenops: trojno-koničasti zobje (tricuspid teeth)...
This species is one of the ancestors of the black mollies, a number of melanistic breeds which are black all over. The wild form is in fact quite rarely kept, as it has a rather plain silvery coloration suffused with brown and green hues.

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> Species of the Poecilia sphenops Complex (Pisces: Poeciliidae) in México.R. Jack Schultz and Robert Rush Miller. Copeia. Vol. 1971, No. 2 (Jun. 1, 1971), pp. 282-290



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