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Avtor Sporočilo
 Naslov prispevka: Re: Ribogojnice na Tajskem
UNREAD_POSTObjavljeno: 24. sep 2019 17:08 
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Dirk Schlingmann Marco Du Toit, To be honest, the text of the mass producer says it all. It's all about denouncing the competition. The plague once came from Asia and originated there. In the meantime, it has spread to almost every facility in the world. The plague or cross contamination must be prevented. DIscus Protector is meanwhile no insider tip but 1000 of times successfully used. Resistant flagellate and worms against Metronidazole or Flubendazole etc. are to be found quite surely in all facilities in the whole world! There is only one exception related to worms and flagellates and of course the plague and their resistance, these are wild caught directly from Brazil when these come into a facility where never other discus or other fishes were. To come back to the plague, here is the final solution against: http://www.discusfood.com/discus-protec ... uarantine/ It's a shame to ignore reality, this is the purpose of the above article! I think everyone here in the group knows what a good discus is and everyone knows how to rate this mass producer. They need stupid people as customers and prevent them from further educating themselves.

Marco Du Toit Dirk Schlingmann
In principle I agree with some of your comments
But.... Not all of it

I assure you the facility of Gerhard Rahn does not carry plague. Nor does the facility of Alex Piwowarski. The good chap Oswald Hanke never had plague carrying discus
I am sure if you were to tell Morten that his facility has plague carriers, he will not be happy.
Stendker fish are not plague resistant carrier fish.
My facility does not have plague resistant carrier fish
I would not allow a Vietnamese Discus near me on grounds of past experience.
Would you? In all honesty, would YOU risk your fish by adding a Vietnamese fish to Discus protector, and then to your facility?

You then reference Discus protector, and that to me is just marketing talk.
Sure it may or may not work, even the manufacturer does not guarantee 100% safety factor. So its still a risk

In your post above you just repeated what has already been said in the comments, being:
Stendker fish are bad quality. I agree 100% with this. They are low grade fish
BUT, do you fear that Stendker fish carry plague?

Thats the only discussion that should be had with regards to the post by "Mr" Stendker.
Sure its in bad taste etc, but if so, then the relevance of each and every post on this group that says anything negative about any breeder/supplier, should be measured against the person who states its ability to produce quality discus?
Surely thats not the measure of criticism?
1

Všeč mi je
· Odgovori · 22 h · Urejeno

Dirk Schlingmann
Dirk Schlingmann You put things in my mouth that I didn't say, and you mix apples and pears. I'm sorry but discussions for the sake of discussing waste my time. I'm sure that most of us in the group have understood the consensus. You mentioned Morten Garathun-Hansen am…Prikaži več others, be sure he is in my eyes the best source for good discus in whole europe! When you are here to defend those people like the above who wrote the original topic, do you think that the right place? We all here stay for discus with good genetic and health basic!



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 Naslov prispevka: Re: Ribogojnice na Tajskem
UNREAD_POSTObjavljeno: 24. sep 2019 17:04 
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Therefore we would like to inform you that we urgently advise against combining our STENDKER Discus with Asian offspring/imports!
Our tip: Ask directly in the specialist shop what kind of discus fish are sold there!
Our STENDKER dealers usually have our flyer and colour chart on display and also offer our STENDKER discus food Good Heart. You can also find a selection of our specialist dealers on our list of dealers for Germany: sorted by postcode here:
https://diskuszucht-stendker.de/de/Haen ... dlerliste/
Worldwide you can find our STENDKER discus dealer list here:
https://diskuszucht-stendker.de/…/Haendler/Haendler_Ausland/

In order to avoid unintentional confusion, we would like to introduce you to the following discus sellers/dealers who, to the best of our knowledge, sell ASIATIC discus fish and should therefore not be associated with our STENDKER discus fish:
ATTENTION Asian discus fish (NO STENDKER DISKUS) in Germany can be obtained e.g. from:
Europa Discus Center
Diskus Markt Mußtopf
Discus breeding Schmidt in Reken and much more.

According to Diskus Special Battenberg no longer sells Asian discus fish, but offers parasite-free discus fish. Parasite-free discus fish should not be associated with STENDKER discus fish, since there is also a risk of infection there and the parasite-free discus fish then no longer remain parasite-free.

Please decide in advance which type of discuf fish you want and stick with it! DO NOT MIX!!

Please pass on this information so that other STENDKER discus holders are spared the experience of Mrs. Bender. Thank you very much.

Below you will find further information about the so-called disccus disease/plague:
Information on discus disease/plague:
The discus disease/ plague was first imported to Europe by Asian discus breeders about 30 years ago. At that time thousands of discus fish died in Germany and also in other European countries. To the best of our knowledge, this "discus search" is a viral infection.
that's not curable. The infected discus fish that survive the first outbreak of the disease usually get used to the virus and don't get quite as sick at the second outbreak. So most Asian discus have got used to the discus disease/ plague and have only few problems with the disease themselves, but unfortunately still serve as carriers. For the transmission of this disease is usually enough a single drop of water or even a fly from one aquarium to another flies.
The discus search has not yet been researched as a separate disease, but most experts assume that it is something similar to the Koi herpes virus.
(Source: Discus breeding Stendker)

Attention: Asian discus search
The discus search is a clinical picture that occurs in discus fish. It is a summary of a highly infectious symptomatology that could not yet be defined as a specific disease.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diskusseuche

The main problem with this disease is that the body's own defence system, the so-called mucous membrane of the fish, is put out of action. This results in accompanying diseases such as the infestation of various ectoparasites or skin diseases.
One can thus say that the so-called "epidemic" is actually a mix of different diseases. Thus there is also no uniform disease pattern and unfortunately so far still no medicine, which promises healing every time. For 99% of the aquarists the infection of the discus with this pathogen therefore means the certain loss of their fish. Some years ago the black coloring of the fish, a very strong mucus secretion and the very rapid death were the main characteristics of this disease.
In most cases, the current manifestation is as follows: The fish initially become frightened. On the second to third day the animals swim air-crapped at the water surface. At the same time a swelling of the mucous membrane can be observed. The animals become darker, but not necessarily black. In the next days the most different accompanying illnesses like Ichthyo, Chilodonella etc. follow.
Unfortunately the renewed outbreak of this disease, which developed in Asia due to bad conditions of keeping and care, contributes again to the bad reputation of the discus in terms of sensitivity, so that probably the number of discus lovers will shrink again.
Source: https://www.fishandmore.de/berichte/diskusseuche/

#diskuszuchtstendker #stendkerdiskus #stendker #stendkerdiscus #discus #diskus #discusbreederstendker #symphysodon, #tropicalfish #discusfish #freshwaterfish #Cichlid #discuslovers #diskusfisch #stendkerdiskuszucht #discustank #europadiscuscenter #DiskusMarktMußtopf
#DiscusSpecialBattenberg



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 Naslov prispevka: Re: Ribogojnice na Tajskem
UNREAD_POSTObjavljeno: 24. sep 2019 17:03 
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Dirk Schlingmann‎
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Dr. E. Schmidt-Focke -Honors Discusgroup
20. september ob 18:51 ·

When I read something like that, I don't get out of laughing any more. Those who bring football fish with their extended fins out of asien origin into the market denounce other breeders! Such a shame! My personal Opinion: Allmost discus out of Asia are much better than the Fishes they do produce! The Plague is all over to find. In the meantime not only out straight from Asia. It's a shame to publish those comment! Who with intellect and education can write such a thing?

Diskuszucht Stendker
18. september ob 09:29 ·
ATTENTION:That's where the fun ends!
CHEAP can also become EXPENSIVE:
The discus plague/disease and bacterial intolerance is spreading again increasingly through Asian discus imports in Germany!

STENDKER discus fish should NOT be mixed with Asian discus imports or their offspring!
This can lead to bacterial intolerance and to the spread of the so-called Asian discus plague (note on discus plague: see at the end of this text)!
Both clinical pictures usually end deadly!
We have been pointing out for many years on our flyer and information on our homepage that our STENDKER discus fish are free of the so-called discus plaque and should not be combined with Asian discus imports due to the bacterial incompatibility!
Asian discus imports often carry this virus in themselves and thus serve as carriers of the so-called discus plague which is very similar to the course of the disease of bacterial intolerance and can lead to the death of our animals!

Unfortunately, many discus sellers who offer Asian offspring in their specialist shops in Germany do not point out that their animals are Asian cheap imports. Some even go so far as to claim that their discus fish are bred in Germany and are even compatible with our STENDKER discus fish. However, this is usually not the case and our STENDKER discus fish are then infected with the mostly fatal ending epidemic or/and the bacterial intolerance, become considerably ill or even die.

The Asian offspring survive mostly by being put together with other breeding strains, as these often serve as carriers of these diseases.
Attention: Once an aquarium is infested with the discus plague or the bacterial intolerance of discus fish, you can no longer add STENDKER discus fish, because our animals are free of the discus plague and would therefore become infected!

Please also note that Asian discus imports usually have completely different keeping conditions (daily 90 % water change, different food, considerably lower life expectancy than our STENDKER discus fish and much more).

Some Asian import sellers of discus fish present themselves as if they were breeders in Germany, like the Europa Discus Center, which sells Asian imports and their offspring. At first sight it is not obvious that these are Asian Discus fish and therefore there is often confusion between us, Europe's largest discus breeding company in Germany STENDKER and the Europa Discus Center. For example, this resulted in Petra Bender, who was not aware that the animals in the Europa Discus Center were Asian discus fish, adding them to her already existing STENDKER fish stock and then the disease broke out in her tank, which resulted in high veterinary costs and considerable loss of her animals. Although Mrs Bender mentioned before the purchase in the Europa Discus Center that she already has STENDKER discus fish and wanted to keep these animals together, she was unfortunately not told there that these two breeding strains STENDKER discus fish and those of the Europa Discus Center have Asian origin and therefore should not be mixed with each other!

That's where the fun ends! If you already sell Asian imports/offspring, you should in our opinion also point this out and not knowingly accept the death of our and other animals and deceive the customers!



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 Naslov prispevka: Re: Ribogojnice na Tajskem
UNREAD_POSTObjavljeno: 06. dec 2018 11:54 
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Pridružen: 13. maj 2010 10:33
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Mario Bogdan A za one koji se zele malo vise informirati bez gresaka u prijevodu
http://diskuszucht-stendker.de/en/Downloads/



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 Naslov prispevka: Re: Ribogojnice na Tajskem
UNREAD_POSTObjavljeno: 06. dec 2018 06:08 
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Oseba Joško Kušička je ustvarila anketo.
3. december ob 16:56 ·
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Dodaj teme

Veliko je govora o tem, da so Stendker diskusi za en k..... Pa nas zanima ali naj fishbox ukine prodajo Stendker diskusov. Bojan Dolenc?
o Pusti pri miru + 84
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Bojan Dolenc
Jože Vrbančič
Dejan Cerovečki
Nejc Žel
Ferdo Pungartnik Kraljevi
Vračar Žiga
Sebastjan Bizjak
Jure Tomassini
Romina Gregorčič
Vasja Grčič
Zarja Struc
Jure Jovanovič
Barbara Novak

Darja Polo



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 Naslov prispevka: Stendker discus
UNREAD_POSTObjavljeno: 05. dec 2018 18:26 
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Pridružen: 13. maj 2010 10:33
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Dirk Schlingmann I think everyone realizes that it was all about provoking, no one has any gain from this. I think everything that's essential has been said. I didn't found the group to have stupid discussions but to bring people together who know about the discus and are committed to keep really high quality discus free from restistant parasites, discus disease, genetic damage and inbreeding damage.

Dirk Schlingmann
Skrbnik · 14. september

The worldwide good reputation of German discus is dragged into the dirt by the cheap mass-produced so called discus but out of the "German chicken farm". The animals that come from there are so bad in quality that you have to apologize to everyone! Any good breeder would kill those animals (and the whole breeding stock) for deformity and they'd sell them.
There retailer around he world certainly not interested in telling the hobbyist what good discus are and what they look like. They just want to sell the worthless and cheap -bad discus (inbred, deformed, color enhanced) finally only cheap crosses but selling as german discus. It is a shame that the hobbyist for such bad animals has to pay four times the price the importer/shop-owner pays as retail price for such garbage before! Mainly a problem in Germany, UK, USA, France simple a shame for the Discus Hobby! In the meantime, I must apologize for criticizing discus from Asia in the past. They have improved the quality considerably and couple of breeders are able to offer very good animals. What do you all thinking about the so called discus from the chicken farm to which I am referring?



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 Naslov prispevka: Re: Ribogojnice na Tajskem
UNREAD_POSTObjavljeno: 03. dec 2018 16:32 
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Samo Poreber Pismu, sem že mislil, da se je nehalo s tem...trda voda in diskusi, pa vidim, da se še vedno trmoglavi naprej :). Ne bom se več spuščal v detalje, ker se mi ne da, zopet. Stendker je tovarna, gojilnica že dolge ne več...predobro poznam vso situacijo. Vse se je podredilo prodaji in s tem tudi prilagajanje na trdo vodo in hranjenje z govejim srcem, samo in edino z enim razlogom, da so stroški čimmanjši. Naj si nekdo predstavlja stroške take mega gojilnice, če se gre v primerno pripravo vode...osmoza, minerali, primerna hrana....x 10. In samo zato je Stendker to kar je, da izvaža v ''40'' dražav, ker ima tovarno kot vidiš piščančje farme in s tem izredno nizke produkcijske stroške in zelo nizke cene za njegove grosiste. Mogoče je velik gospod kot človek, kot gojitelj nikakor. Neštetokrat bil na njegovih štantih, se pogovarjal z njim...proti njemu nimam ničesar, prijazen gospod, njegov način gojenja...nikakor. Kako si razlagati njegove razstavne pare na sejmu, ki se naslednji dan transporta že drstijo vsi po vrsti...vsi, brez izjeme...voda je polna hormonov itd, v ozadju kovčki farmacije...preverjeno. Nobeden nima problemov z Stendkerji...malo morgen, veliko jih ima. Kvaliteta...ne bom komentiral, oblika že dolgo ni več po klasičnem diskus standardu. Nemci...priznani gojitelji diskusov, se ga dobesedno sramujejo, toliko o tem. V diskus ''sceni'' če lahko to rečemo, kjer so ljudje ki nekaj veljajo in vejo na tem področju, je Stendker in trda voda stvar posmeha. Brez zamere, nikogar nisem mislil užalit, ampak to so dejstva, katera izven naše meje obstajajo že kar nekaj časa, samo do nas pride pač malo kasneje, malo se pa tudi stran pogleda...je tako velikokrat lažje očitno...:)
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Obožujem
· Odgovori · 4 dni
Bojan Dolenc
Bojan Dolenc Samo Poreber hvala ti za res zlata vredno mnenje od našega najboljšega akvarista! (y)
2
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Všeč mi je
· Odgovori · 4 dni
Bojan Dolenc
Bojan Dolenc Ključne besede: genetski spački, nenaravne razmere, ribogojstvo, masovna komercialna vzreja, cenena (napačna) hrana...To je vse točno to, kar akvaristika ni oz. naj ne bi bila.

---------
Aleks Kolar wrote: " Hello Markus Lax! Because u are one of the recognizable discus breeder I will ask u about your opinion. We are having a debate about Stendker’s discuses in hard water. What is your oppinion about Stendker and their policy? Does discuses need soft water or not?"
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Všeč mi je
· Odgovori · 4 min
Bojan Dolenc
Bojan Dolenc Marcus Lax wrote: " Stendker is a commercial breeder. He would say and write everything to sell his fish. A lot of people in the German scene don‘t like him and his way of promoting his fish. A discus is a softwater fish. One of the guys wrote it right... I also agree with Gregor Bauer... it needs not ONLY 40-50 years to change a softwater to hardwater fish. Discus in hardwater don‘t become old, it the same as with African Cichlids in softwater. Also their way of feeding discus... ONLY with beefheart. Why do they do it... it’s absolutely cheap and they can sell their beefheart mix. They customer must buy these food, because their discus ONLY know eat this beefheart mix. It’s all marketing."



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 Naslov prispevka: Re: Ribogojnice na Tajskem
UNREAD_POSTObjavljeno: 29. nov 2018 13:09 
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Samo Poreber Pismu, sem že mislil, da se je nehalo s tem...trda voda in diskusi, pa vidim, da se še vedno trmoglavi naprej :). Ne bom se več spuščal v detalje, ker se mi ne da, zopet. Stendker je tovarna, gojilnica že dolge ne več...predobro poznam vso situacijo. Vse se je podredilo prodaji in s tem tudi prilagajanje na trdo vodo in hranjenje z govejim srcem, samo in edino z enim razlogom, da so stroški čimmanjši. Naj si nekdo predstavlja stroške take mega gojilnice, če se gre v primerno pripravo vode...osmoza, minerali, primerna hrana....x 10. In samo zato je Stendker to kar je, da izvaža v ''40'' dražav, ker ima tovarno kot vidiš piščančje farme in s tem izredno nizke produkcijske stroške in zelo nizke cene za njegove grosiste. Mogoče je velik gospod kot človek, kot gojitelj nikakor. Neštetokrat bil na njegovih štantih, se pogovarjal z njim...proti njemu nimam ničesar, prijazen gospod, njegov način gojenja...nikakor. Kako si razlagati njegove razstavne pare na sejmu, ki se naslednji dan transporta že drstijo vsi po vrsti...vsi, brez izjeme...voda je polna hormonov itd, v ozadju kovčki farmacije...preverjeno. Nobeden nima problemov z Stendkerji...malo morgen, veliko jih ima. Kvaliteta...ne bom komentiral, oblika že dolgo ni več po klasičnem diskus standardu. Nemci...priznani gojitelji diskusov, se ga dobesedno sramujejo, toliko o tem. V diskus ''sceni'' če lahko to rečemo, kjer so ljudje ki nekaj veljajo in vejo na tem področju, je Stendker in trda voda stvar posmeha. Brez zamere, nikogar nisem mislil užalit, ampak to so dejstva, katera izven naše meje obstajajo že kar nekaj časa, samo do nas pride pač malo kasneje, malo se pa tudi stran pogleda...je tako velikokrat lažje očitno...:



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 Naslov prispevka: Re: Ribogojnice na Tajskem
UNREAD_POSTObjavljeno: 15. maj 2012 21:48 

Pridružen: 16. maj 2010 17:30
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Kraj: Otočec
''ko bo dosežena kritična masa, pa bo prišlo do sprememb''

Globoko upam, da do tega kmalu pride, ker takole ne pelje nikamor. Da je samo nekaj ''poslednjih mohikancev'' je pa tud že utrujajoče, sploh če vedno kratko potegnejo. Sej na koncu ne veš, al si ti bedak da tako misliš ali...sej na koncu če potegneš črto itak vidiš da v trenutni situaciji v kakršni smo mogoče celo si...:).
Ampak brez ''bedakov'' ne gre, na tej ali na drugi strani. Pač gonili bomo svoje naprej, pa upajmo, da se kmalu kaj premakne.

Kar se pa tiče diskusov ja, Piwowarski je razred zase, pa še nekaj gojiteljev je, na našo srečo. Stendker me ni prepričal, kvečjemu nasprotno, vendar pa je to lahko že stvar okusa.



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 Naslov prispevka: Re: Ribogojnice na Tajskem
UNREAD_POSTObjavljeno: 15. maj 2012 16:59 
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samo je napisal/-a:
...
Na koncu me mineva vse skupaj, tudi pisat se mi ne da več. Ljudje, za katere sem bil nekoč prepričan...se spremenijo čez noč, zaradi...?
....

Hvala enako! Tole si napisal za 10! Vidim, da se ne motim o tebi, samo kaj, ko je takih fejst ljudi tako malo, premalo!
Tudi mene se že loteva malodušje. V nedeljo sem bil na tistem jebenem sejmu SLO-EXPO in sem se čudil, kako nikogar ne moti, kaj se dogaja (ali sem samo jaz tako nor?), ljudje so od te jebene potrošniške evforije očitno že tako otopeli, da se ne zavedajo več realnosti, vse jim je "kul"; morda sem pa tja kakšen otrok še opazi, da je kaj narobe, če je še dovolj majhen in nepokvarjen; če je preveč gledal risanke in TV, je že hitro konec z njim :twisted:
A po moje je rešitev samo v tem, da se temu jebenemu globalnemu neoliberalnemu kapitalizmu pljune v obraz in da se barabam pove v obraz, kaj so: barabe. Si ali pošten ali pa baraba, ni drugega, ni neke vmesne variante. Ko bo takih, ki so spregledali in jim je prekipelo dovolj, ko bo dosežena kritična masa, pa bo prišlo do sprememb; to ne sme biti z nasiljem, ker to ni prava pot; ljudje morajo najprej spregledati, spoznati, kaj je prav in kaj narobe in kam ta zgrešena pot in amoralnost pelje - v popolno katastrofo.

Že pred leti sem imel nekje podnapis na enem forumu: "Majhna skupina ljudi ali posameznik lahko spremeni svet. Menim, da edino tako lahko nekaj resnično spremenimo." Margaret Mead (pa so me hitro zbanali :twisted: )...



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